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"They may have been extinguished during the day," suggested Ktadanta.36

Said the Blessed One: "Suppose the flame of the first watch had been extinguished during the second watch, would you call it the same if it burns again in the third watch?"37

Replied Ktadanta: "In one sense it is a different flame, in another it is not."38

The Tathgata asked again: "Has the time that elapsed during the extinction of the flame anything to do with its identity or non-identity?"39

"No, sir," said the Brahman, "it has not. There is a difference and an identity, whether many years elapsed or only one second, and also whether the lamp has been extinguished in the meantime or not."40

"Well, then, we agree that the flame of to-day is in a certain sense the same as the flame of yesterday, and in another sense it is different at every moment. Moreover, the flames of the same kind, illuminating with equal power the same land of rooms, are in a certain sense the same."41

"Yes, sir," replied Ktadanta.42

The Blessed One continued: "Now, suppose there is a man who feels like thyself, thinks like thyself, and acts like thyself, is he not the same man as thou?"43

"No, sir," interrupted Ktadanta.44

Said the Buddha: "Dost thou deny that the same logic holds good for thyself that holds good for the things of the world?"45

Ktadanta bethought himself and rejoined slowly: "No, I do not. The same logic holds good universally; but there is a peculiarity about my self which renders it altogether different from everything else and also from other[Pg 157] selves. There may be another man who feels exactly like me, thinks like me, and acts like me; suppose even he had the same name and the same kind of possessions, he would not be myself."46

"True, Ktadanta," answered Buddha, "he would not be thyself. Now, tell me, is the person who goes to school one, and that same person when he has finished his schooling another? Is it one who commits a crime, another who is punished by having his hands and feet cut off?"47

"They are the same," was the reply.48

"Then sameness is constituted by continuity only?" asked the Tathgata.49

"Not only by continuity," said Ktadanta, "but also and mainly by identity of character."50

"Very well," concluded the Buddha, "then thou agreest that persons can be the same, in the same sense as two flames of the same kind are called the same; and thou must recognize that in this sense another man of the same character and product of the same karma is the same as thou."51

"Well, I do," said the Brahman.52

The Buddha continued: "And in this same sense alone art thou the same to-day as yesterday. Thy nature is not constituted by the matter of which thy body consists, but by thy sankhras, the forms of the body, of sensations, of thoughts. Thy person is the combination of the sankhras. Wherever they are, thou art. Whithersoever they go, thou goest. Thus thou wilt recognize in a certain sense an identity of thy self, and in another sense a difference. But he who does not recognize the identity should deny all identity, and should say that the questioner is no longer the same person as he who a minute after receives the answer. Now consider the continuation of thy personality, which is preserved in thy karma. Dost thou call it death and annihilation, or fife and continued life?"[Pg 158]53

"I call it life and continued life," rejoined Ktadanta, "for it is the continuation of my existence, but I do not care for that kind of continuation. All I care for is the continuation of self in the other sense, which makes of every man, whether identical with me or not, an altogether different person."54

"Very well," said Buddha. "This is what thou desirest and this is the cleaving to self. This is thy error. All compound things are transitory: they grow and they decay. All compound things are subject to pain: they will be separated from what they love and be joined to what they abhor. All compound things lack a self, an tman, an ego."55

"How is that?" asked Ktadanta.56

"Where is thy self?" asked the Buddha. And when Ktadanta made no reply, he continued: "Thy self to which thou cleavest is a constant change. Years ago thou wast a small babe; then, thou wast a boy; then a youth, and now, thou art a man. Is there any identity of the babe and the man? There is an identity in a certain sense only. Indeed there is more identity between the flames of the first and the third watch, even though the lamp might have been extinguished during the second watch. Now which is thy true self, that of yesterday, that of to-day, or that of to-morrow, for the preservation of which thou clamorest?"57

Ktadanta was bewildered. "Lord of the world," he said, "I see my error, but I am still confused."58

The Tathgata continued: "It is by a process of evolution that sankhras come to be. There is no sankhra which has sprung into being without a gradual becoming. Thy sankhras are the product of thy deeds in former existences. The combination of thy sankhras is thy self. Wheresoever they are impressed thither thy self migrates. In thy sankhras thou wilt continue to live and thou wilt[Pg 159] reap in future existences the harvest sown now and in the past."59

"Verily, O Lord," rejoined Ktadanta, "this is not a fair retribution. I cannot recognize the justice that others after me will reap what I am sowing now."60

The Blessed One waited a moment and then replied: "Is all teaching in vain? Dost thou not understand that those others are thou thyself? Thou thyself wilt reap what thou sowest, not others.61

"Think of a man who is ill-bred and destitute, suffering from the wretchedness of his condition. As a boy he was slothful and indolent, and when he grew up he had not learned a craft to earn a living. Wouldst thou say his misery is not the product of his own action, because the adult is no longer the same person as was the boy?62

"Verily, I say unto thee: Not in the heavens, not in the midst of the sea, not if thou hidest thyself away in the clefts of the mountains, wilt thou find a place where thou canst escape the fruit of thine evil actions.63

"At the same time thou art sure to receive the blessings of thy good actions.64

"The man who has long been traveling and who returns home in safety, the welcome of kinsfolk, friends, and acquaintances awaits. So, the fruits of his good works bid him welcome who has walked in the path of righteousness, when he passes over from the present life into the hereafter."65