Page 39 of 74

The Blessed One replied: "The truth will never pass away."4

Ktadanta said: "I am told that thou teachest the law, yet thou tearest down religion. Thy disciples despise rites and abandon immolation, but reverence for the gods can be shown only by sacrifices. The very nature of religion consists in worship and sacrifice."5

Said the Buddha: "Greater than the immolation of bullocks is the sacrifice of self. He who offers to the gods his evil desires will see the uselessness of slaughtering animals at the altar. Blood has no cleansing power, but the eradication of lust will make the heart pure. Better than worshiping gods is obedience to the laws of righteousness."6

Ktadanta, being of a religious disposition and anxious about his fate after death, had sacrificed countless victims. Now he saw the folly of atonement by blood. Not yet satisfied, however, with the teachings of the Tathgata, Ktadanta continued: "Thou believest, O Master, that beings[Pg 153] are reborn; that they migrate in the evolution of life; and that subject to the law of karma we must reap what we sow. Yet thou teachest the non-existence of the soul! Thy disciples praise utter self-extinction as the highest bliss of Nirvna. If I am merely a combination of the sankhras, my existence will cease when I die. If I am merely a compound of sensations and ideas and desires, wither can I go at the dissolution of the body?"7

Said the Blessed One: "O Brahman, thou art religious and earnest. Thou art seriously concerned about thy soul. Yet is thy work in vain because thou art lacking in the one thing that is needful.8

"There is rebirth of character, but no transmigration of a self. Thy thought-forms reappear, but there is no ego-entity transferred. The stanza uttered by a teacher is reborn in the scholar who repeats the words.9

"Only through ignorance and delusion do men indulge in the dream that their souls are separate and self-existent entities.10

"Thy heart, O Brahman, is cleaving still to self; thou art anxious about heaven but thou seekest the pleasures of self in heaven, and thus thou canst not see the bliss of truth and the immortality of truth.11

"Verily I say unto thee: The Blessed One has not come to teach death, but to teach life, and thou discernest not the nature of living and dying.12

"This body will be dissolved and no amount of sacrifice will save it. Therefore, seek thou the life that is of the mind. Where self is, truth cannot be; yet when truth comes, self will disappear. Therefore, let thy mind rest in the truth; propagate the truth, put thy whole will in it, and let it spread. In the truth thou shalt live forever.13

"Self is death and truth is life. The cleaving to self is a perpetual dying, while moving in the truth is partaking of Nirvna which is life everlasting."[Pg 154]14

Ktadanta said: "Where, O venerable Master, is Nirvna?"15

"Nirvna is wherever the precepts are obeyed," replied the Blessed One.16

"Do I understand thee aright," rejoined the Brahman, "that Nirvna is not a place, and being nowhere it is without reality?"17

"Thou dost not understand me aright," said the Blessed One, "Now listen and answer these questions: Where does the wind dwell?"18

"Nowhere," was the reply.19

Buddha retorted: "Then, sir, there is no such thing as wind."20

Ktadanta made no reply; and the Blessed One asked again: "Answer me, O Brahman, where does wisdom dwell? Is wisdom a locality?"21

"Wisdom has no allotted dwelling-place," replied Ktadanta.22

Said the Blessed One: "Meanest thou that there is no wisdom, no enlightenment, no righteousness, and no salvation, because Nirvna is not a locality? As a great and mighty wind which passeth over the world in the heat of the day, so the Tathgata comes to blow over the minds of mankind with the breath of his love, so cool, so sweet, so calm, so delicate; and those tormented by fever assuage their suffering and rejoice at the refreshing breeze."23

Said Ktadanta: "I feel, O Lord, that thou proclaimest a great doctrine, but I cannot grasp it. Forbear with me that I ask again: Tell me, O Lord, if there be no tman, how can there be immortality? The activity of the mind passeth, and our thoughts are gone when we have done thinking."24

Buddha replied: "Our thinking is gone, but our thoughts continue. Reasoning ceases, but knowledge remains."[Pg 155] 25

Said Ktadanta: "How is that? Is not reasoning and knowledge the same?"25

The Blessed One explained the distinction by an illustration: "It is as when a man wants, during the night, to send a letter, and, after having Ids clerk called, has a lamp lit, and gets the letter written. Then, when that has been done, he extinguishes the lamp. But though the writing has been finished and the light has been put out the letter is still there. Thus does reasoning cease and knowledge remain; and in the same way mental activity ceases, but experience, wisdom, and all the fruits of our acts endure."27

Ktadanta continued: "Tell me, O Lord, pray tell me, where, if the sankhras are dissolved, is the identity of my self. If my thoughts are propagated, and if my soul migrates, my thoughts cease to be my thoughts and my soul ceases to be my soul. Give me an illustration, but pray, O Lord, tell me, where is the identity of my self?"28

Said the Blessed One: "Suppose a man were to light a lamp; would it burn the night through?"29

"Yes, it might do so," was the reply.30

"Now, is it the same flame that burns in the first watch of the night as in the second?"31

Ktadanta hesitated. He thought "Yes, it is the same flame," but fearing the complications of a hidden meaning, and trying to be exact, he said: "No, it is not."32

"Then," continued the Blessed One, "there are flames, one in the first watch and the other in the second watch."33

"No, sir," said Ktadanta. "In one sense it is not the same flame, but in another sense it is the same flame. It burns the same kind of oil, it emits the same land of light, and it serves the same purpose."34

"Very well," said the Buddha, "and would you call those flames the same that have burned yesterday and are burning[Pg 156] now in the same lamp, filled with the same kind of oil, illuminating the same room?"35